Feminism Debate - The Diary of a CEO with Deborah France-White, Louise Perry, and Erica Komisa

Has modern feminism betrayed the very women it promised to empower? Deborah France-White (Guilty Feminist), Louise Perry, and Erica Komisar go head-to-head on sexual freedom. Deborah Frances-White is a bestselling author and host of The Guilty Feminist podcast, Louise Perry is a journalist and author of The Case Against the Sexual Revolution, and Erica Komisar is a clinical social worker, psychoanalyst, and author of books such as, ‘Chicken Little the Sky Isn't Falling: Raising Resilient Adolescents in the New Age of Anxiety’.

The Sexual Revolution and Shifting Social Structures

• The Sexual Revolution comprised both an ideological event (questioning traditional, often Christian, ideas about sexual relationships) and profound material changes, including the introduction of the Pill, safe abortion, the decriminalization of abortion, and domestic technologies like the washing machine.
• The Pill gave the illusion that sex was consequence-free, although physical consequences (STDs, contraception failure) still exist, and emotional consequences remain, particularly for women who tend to bond more quickly.
• The primary positive outcome of the revolution was granting women agency (choice moment to moment), autonomy (deciding the shape of one's life), and emotional freedom.
• Feminism did not unite women but split them, with the second wave specifically telling women that they "should" want free sex and to go out to work and leave their children in daycare.
• Excessive freedom without structure is detrimental, causing individuals to feel untethered, unbound, and insecure, despite freedom generally being a virtue.
• The historical shift from women being community caretakers (checking on the poor and elderly) has been described as pulling a "keystone species" out of the environment, causing the community ecosystem to degrade.

Critique of Hookup Culture and Dating Dynamics

• Hookup culture is seen as better suited to the average preferences of men (who are generally more unrestricted in their socio-sexuality) than women.
• In environments where men are the scarce resource (e.g., university campuses with more women than men), men can set the terms, leading to more prevalent hookup culture, indicating women engage in it because they "sort of have to".
• Hookup culture is psychologically detrimental to young people, with 82% of young women and 72% of young men reporting feeling depressed, anxious, embarrassed, or regretful after casual sexual encounters.
• Young people's brains are still developing (up to age 25–27) and are highly vulnerable to the loneliness and shame caused by the hookup culture.
• However, women need the sexual freedom afforded by the revolution to explore their sexuality and avoid being trapped in unsatisfying monogamy with the first person they meet.
• The contemporary dating market, influenced by female hypergamy, sees women generally choosing partners who are equally or more educated and financially successful than they are. This leaves a large proportion of men invisible and increases competition among successful women for a small group of high-value men.

The Economic and Policy Neglect of Motherhood

• Motherhood is a major problem for the ideological idea of gender sameness because it highlights biological differences.
• Putting children under the age of three in daycare (defined as institutional group care) is considered detrimental to their mental health because they are separated from the primary attachment figure required to buffer them from stress and regulate their emotions.
• Governments have been accused of using women to boost GDP and have created policies (like punishing single-earner families in the tax code) that channel women into the workforce after having children, often by masquerading unregulated capitalism as feminist policy.
• Policy choices currently remove choice by only offering subsidies for daycare, not for other care alternatives like nannies or family help.
• Society denigrates motherhood; stay-at-home parents often receive no admiration or respect, even from other women, because the economy values paid labor over the critical unpaid work of raising the next generation.
• The majority of women in the UK (66%) and America (60%) would like the opportunity to stay home more with their children.
• There are biological and hormonal differences in nurturing: women produce high oxytocin (making them sensitive nurturers) while men produce vasopressin and oxytocin (making them protective, aggressive, and playful risk-takers), differences which should be acknowledged in policy and education.

The Manosphere, Economic Devaluation, and Male Vulnerability

• The rise of the manosphere is a reaction to the pendulum swinging too far, leading to a feeling of powerlessness among men.
• The core issue for struggling young men is primarily rooted in economic and technological changes that have reduced the value and availability of blue-collar work, not solely feminist ideology.
• Masculinity traditionally included both privileges and severe responsibilities (e.g., being a breadwinner, risking death for family). Both sexes are increasingly seeking privileges without accepting the corresponding responsibilities, which is reflected in the manosphere's rhetoric.
• Boys need different educational approaches (e.g., more physical expression) than the methods currently used, which cater to girls.
• To address the current societal imbalance, solutions suggested include nurturing boys to be empathetic and strengthening them to compete, rather than telling girls to step back, or implementing college quotas to ensure 50/50 representation to prevent the marriage crisis caused by women dating up.

The Problem of Modern Pornography and Sexual Ethics

• Modern video pornography is a "super stimulus" that is so explicit and exaggerated it leaves no room for fantasy, training the brain to only respond to the hyper-stimulus.
• The industry causes harm to men, including erectile dysfunction with real human partners, because real sex often does not "measure up" to the hyper-stimulated fantasy.
• Feminism has been criticized for "dropping the ball" by prioritizing sexual liberalism and personal choices over the protection of women being harmed within the porn industry.
• Sex should be described by feminists as at least "special" because it is a uniquely intimate experience, evidenced by the fact that rape is recognized socially and legally as worse than non-sexual assault or theft.

The Future Trajectory of Feminism and Society

• The societies that have more children will be the ones whose values get passed on. The current trajectory of low-fertility, secular, progressive societies (where people are more aware of climate change and cost of living) means that feminist societies will wither and highly conservative societies will win, as birth rates are increasingly predicted by religiosity and conservatism.
• The biggest threat to women's rights is the rising far-right Christian nationalism, which is attempting to overturn rights like abortion and LGBTQ+ rights; therefore, women and feminists must stop dividing and stand together to preserve the gains made by the movement.
• The ultimate challenge is to create a "fertile feminism" that respects motherhood and encourages women to have children while maintaining choice and autonomy.

Chapters

00:00:00 Intro
00:02:14 Introducing the Panel
00:03:28 What Is the Sexual Revolution?
00:10:01 Autonomy, Freedom, and Agency as a Byproduct of the Sexual Revolution
00:14:48 Casual Sex and Hookup Culture
00:30:47 One Sexual Partner for Life
00:33:00 Age of Marriage Increasing Over Time
00:33:40 Emotional Consequences of Sex
00:39:36 Feminists Typically Have Had Trauma
00:43:13 Agency as a Personality Trait
00:47:27 Sex Education in Schools
00:49:19 Female Pleasure
00:51:12 Is Sexual Freedom Making Us Happy?
00:53:36 Feeling Bullied by the Narrative of Freedom
00:57:29 Ads
00:59:32 Manosphere and Tradwives
01:06:55 Do Women Want Men to Be Providers?
01:07:46 Children and Gender Roles
01:12:08 Poor Mothers Looking After Children
01:18:17 The Role Feminism Has Had on Motherhood
01:22:20 Would Steven Take 3 Years Off Work to Raise Children?
01:23:28 Men and Women's Nurturing Hormones
01:27:57 We Can't Be Neutral About Policies
01:30:24 The Narrative That Having Children Is Miserable
01:32:12 Female Guilt
01:33:20 Parenthood and Narcissism
01:41:27 Birth Rates Declining
01:42:51 Traditional Gender Roles
01:48:29 Demonizing Feminism
01:52:38 Link Between Political Stance and Number of Children
01:56:48 Ads
01:58:33 Pornography
02:06:02 Masculine Virtues
02:11:16 Do Boys and Girls Need to Be Parented Differently?
02:12:45 Chivalry
02:13:50 Evolutionary Differences
02:19:05 Quotas in Education
02:21:02 Final Thoughts