Viral: The Origin of Covid 19 - Dr Jordan Peterson with Matt Ridley

1. The COVID-19 Origin: Lab Leak Hypothesis and Anomalies

• Initial Acceptance, then Doubt: Matt Ridley initially accepted the conventional idea that the virus emerged from an exotic meat market in Wuhan, like SARS did from bats. However, his investigation for a Wall Street Journal article revealed anomalies.
• Geographical Coincidence: The primary "smoking gun" is the fact that the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, the very city that houses a lab (Wuhan Institute of Virology, WIV) conducting extensive research on SARS-like coronaviruses.
• Remarkable Human Adaptation: The virus was "remarkably well adapted" for human-to-human transmission from the outset (November/December 2019). This is unusual for a zoonotic jump, as viruses typically need to evolve over time through many infections to efficiently spread in a new host species.
• Furin Cleavage Site (FCS): A highly "striking and very surprising" feature of SARS-CoV-2 is the presence of a furin cleavage site in its Spike Gene. This 12-letter genetic sequence is an "extra chunk" (inserted, not merely altered) compared to close relatives and allows the virus to use a human enzyme (furin) to spread more effectively from cell to cell and tissue to tissue, making it much more dangerous and transmissible. This site is unique for a SARS-like coronavirus and is considered the reason for the pandemic's severity.
• Debunking the Pangolin Theory: An announcement of a similar virus in pangolins was used to suggest an intermediate animal host. However, this pangolin virus was only 90% similar (not close enough), lacked the furin cleavage site, and no pangolins were on sale in Wuhan markets, discrediting it as the source.
• Lack of Natural Evidence: Unlike the SARS outbreak, there has been no discovery of an infected animal, evidence in blood banks of prior human infections, or a clear "index case" for COVID-19. The early concentration of cases in the Wuhan market might be a circular argument, as hospitals were told to consider COVID only if patients lived near the market. While environmental samples confirmed virus circulation in the market, they didn't prove animal-to-human transmission.
• Humanised Mouse Experiments: The WIV was conducting experiments infecting "humanised mice" (mice with human ACE2 receptors) with bat viruses, effectively "training" these viruses to infect human beings. Concerns exist that an escape or lab worker infection from such experiments could lead to an outbreak, especially as some were conducted at lower biosafety levels (BSL-2).
• Disappearing Database: The WIV's database of 22,000 wildlife pathogens (including 15,000 bat viruses), partly funded by the U.S., went offline on 12 September 2019 and has never been restored. This database could exonerate the lab, but its inaccessibility raises significant suspicion.
• CIA Reports and Chinese Opacity: The CIA reportedly indicates early cases were lab workers, but evidence is withheld. The Chinese regime has been criticised for its lack of transparency regarding the pandemic's origins, which is deemed "even more scandalous" given the global impact.

2. Cover-up, Politicisation, and Gain-of-Function Research

• Virologists' U-Turn: Several prominent Western virologists, including Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. Jeremy Farrar, initially expressed private concerns about the virus being engineered due to the furin cleavage site. However, within days, they drafted an article for Nature Medicine dismissing the engineering possibility.
• Motivations for Suppression:
  • Concerns about "damaging International Harmony" (Francis Collins) and the "reputation of science" and "Chinese science".
  • Fear of harming the biotechnology industry if a lab accident was confirmed.
  • Peter Daszak's Undisclosed Conflict of Interest: Daszak, whose EcoHealth Alliance funneled U.S. funds to the WIV, orchestrated a Lancet letter dismissing the lab leak without disclosing his conflict of interest. Crucially, he also failed to reveal a 2018 Pentagon proposal (Project Defuse) with WIV, which included inserting furin cleavage sites into SARS-like viruses if new ones were found.
  • A desire for the pandemic to be an "ecological cautionary tale" rather than a lab accident.
  • Financial interests in virology research, fearing defunding if such high-risk work led to an accident.
• Totalitarianism and Science: Peterson and Ridley argue that true science, requiring stringent ethics and honesty, cannot flourish in a totalitarian state where pressure exists to align findings with party glorification. A biosafety crisis at the Wuhan lab in November 2019, coinciding with high-level party scrutiny and pressure for research results, suggests an environment conducive to accidents.
• Gain-of-Function (GOF) Research Risks: These experiments, where parts of one virus are inserted into another to create hybrid viruses, resulted in up to 10,000-fold increases in infectivity in human cells. Critics warned that such research was "looking for a gas leak with a lighted match," creating the very risks it aimed to prevent. Despite these dangers, GOF research, sometimes in cities, continues to be funded.
• Politicisation of the Debate: A Science journal article framed the lab leak hypothesis as a political (Republican/conservative) issue, dismissing it against WHO and U.S. intelligence conclusions. Ridley refutes this, stating the true divide is between those advocating for an "open question" (more investigation needed) versus a "case closed" approach, arguing that the latter is "immensely premature" given the lack of definitive evidence for a natural origin.
• Lack of Curiosity: The "sheer lack of curiosity" from scientific bodies like the Royal Society and the Academy of Medical Sciences to host debates on the origin, dismissing it as "too controversial" or "political," is seen as "bizarre" and problematic for science.

3. Broader Philosophical and Ethical Implications

• Totalitarianism as a Pathogen: Peterson argues that when the pandemic emerged, totalitarian regimes (like China) acted first with lockdowns, and the West, in "herd-like panic," imitated them. This spread of "totalitarianism" is seen as a "much bigger threat" than the COVID pathogen itself, questioning the ethical and practical justifiability of lockdowns.
• Fragility of Enlightenment Science: Both Peterson and Ridley express concern about the fragility of the Enlightenment philosophy, particularly the corrosive impact of postmodernism on science. The claim that "there's no science without politics" undermines the pursuit of objective truth, affecting even hard sciences.
• The "Death of God" and Scientific Truth: Peterson links the decline of faith in a transcendent being to the rise of political ideology as a sacred substitute or nihilism. He posits that the scientific enterprise, at its best, implicitly relies on a "faith-based axiom"—the belief in a "transcendent object" (truth) beyond current apprehension, and that the pursuit of this truth is inherently liberating. This, he argues, is deeply analogous to or even derived from the "Judeo-Christian" religious orientation of the "Divine word".
• Reverence for Truth: Ridley asserts that "truth matters more than anything else," echoing the quote "truth matters more than consequence." He believes this pursuit of truth, though sometimes uncomfortable, is ultimately liberating.
• Science as Philosophy vs. Institution: Ridley distinguishes between science as a philosophy of open inquiry (which he loves and admires for constantly revealing new mysteries and fostering wonder) and science as an institution (which can become a "cult," self-interested, politically corrupted, and turn its back on knowledge).
• Wonder and Worship: Ridley connects the "wonder" derived from a deep understanding of the world to a fundamental human experience that is not exclusive to conventional religion. Peterson further equates this "attending to the Wonder of being" with "proper worship," rooted in epistemic humility and a desire to pursue truth, distinct from dogmatic religion that can degenerate into totalitarianism.
• Conflating Religious Spirit and Totalitarianism: Both agree that conflating the "religious impulse towards truth" and the "totalitarian spirit" (dogmatic imposition, malevolence, suppression of inquiry) is a dangerous error. Identifying the religious spirit as the primary impediment to science rather than totalitarianism itself, risks "fighting the wrong War" and alienating potential allies who share a reverence for truth.
• The West's Peril: The conversation concludes with a warning that if the West abandons its "fundamental Faith" in the pursuit of truth—manifested in both proper religious and scientific endeavors—it faces immense peril, risking a world where "human engineered deceit" (totalitarianism) or "nihilism" prevails. Scientists bending truth to political purposes are seen as warping the entire structure of the world and abdicating their societal privilege.